But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. John Lindell, pastor of James River Church, represents a new breed of reformed Assembly of God pastors yes Calvinism in the Assembly of God! Youre not one of us. Wouldnt you encourage him to find another vocation? It was especially appropriate to hear last night since our current sermon series is on the topic of Worship. if mark is truly repentant than this sermon is him explaining how he persecuted and publicly stoned stephen to death which was actually mark stoning Jesus to death publicly and with no remorse. Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. Others appear to draw some type of inspiration from Driscoll. I met the pastor. Did you miss a tithe payment? ATB I know historical accounts can be skewed. . The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. here is a bit of what i could type out as he was speaking, would love to see a transcript of it instead of having to listen to it though. Dont miss the title of Lindells May 16, 2014 blog entry: So far I define church as more what it isnt rather than what it is. In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. Are you not voting? there is a scripture somewhere that says i wont speak against Gods annointed, which was david re saul i believe, and people have used this (or churches have used this to keep people quiet) as a reason to never say anything about church abuse. The worst thing in the world right now for Chandler is that Mark is in making the Christian news cycle. As much as I distrust Acts29 and the YRR, and as much as many see Matt Chandlers action as mere damage control, at least he admitted that they screwed up, and there is still hope that he really meant it and that they will really act differently in the future because theyve learned something. This was not due to the kindness of the elders (who told us we could not leave because we were under church discipline). I used to buy into this,thinking it is such wisdom to see ourselves in the examples of scripture, until I realized that we never seem to see ourselves as the villain. But if I had trusted my gut at the time I would have admitted that staff viewing the members as guests is so far outside Body of Christ thinking it should not require an explanation. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. This captures precisely what I have been sensing as well. James River Church is a multi-site church that exists to impact the lives of people through relevant teaching,. . If Mark Driscoll is going to wanna manipulate his 501(c)3 Church audience to give him a second chance, hes gonna havta try harder. I think its much the same thing. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. But much of the Australian backlash has centred around Mr Driscoll's comments about women. James River Church's 2020 Christmas service. http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/31866. Do I hope they change? It genuinely didnt occur to me that he was just a good, decent man who might care about Gods children regardless of their zip code. He has not shown himself capable of being trusted with that sort of ministry in the first place. Connect With Us! He lives in the Show Me State, so go ahead and show me. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? I could not exactly put my finger on what was wrong. Regardless of your tilt on the subject, Lindell appears to go out of his way to make it into the news on the subject. Clear All United States - All Cities I never saw it tried in a church setting, but something like that was tried where I worked. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. And these leaders present themselves as one thing but are deceiving people the entire time. I take it to mean: Don't feel so bad, there are whole lot of other people hell-bound, too. Is there a third way that I have overlooked? In the case of Chandler, the fudgy language in the apologies does not instill much confidence that the root has been exposed so that it can be dug out. Vulgarity and filth get fed to us little by little until we hardly notice weve ignored those first red flags and become part and parcel of the heresy. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. Its all PR spin, because they got caught with their (or, pardon the metaphor, MDs) pants down. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. i tweeted: This is what the giving unit is looking for, not God. The church had 15 locations in five states. An online petition calling for Mr Driscoll to be removed from Hillsong's conferences had attracted more than 3000 signatures prior toMr Houston's statement. The emails we received were similarly written. Until that flaw is named and claimed, it is reasonable to expect this kind of thing to happen again. Hosted at every James River Church campus. The question is not, Can he be forgiven? but rather Should he be trusted in a position of power over peoples lives? I would guess that many of the people who have been directly harmed by him have forgiven him. If there is one thing I think is missing from the entire narrative of interpreting scripture it is the theme of wisdom running through it from Genesis on. stephen is going to be filled with the Holy Spirit. (mark doesnt say that stephen was already filled with the Holy Spirit, the bible doesnt mention stephen being filled at that time at all) pure in heart shall see God. Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. Hillsong is an international megachurch based in Australia that has exported its influence to major global cities and into churches music across the United States. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. he smiles and there is love in his heart. They secretly instigated men who said here come the false charges. I think that explains a lot of it. i think He has some Jesus in him, it just gets mixed up with other stuff. I doubt he walked away broke. My heart aches for all those whom Mark Driscoll hurt from the Petrys and Meyers to the young and impressionable. Photos show large crowds at Missouri's James River Church | The Kansas The kid starts expecting it. Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. I believe in forgiveness, but cautious about putting such folks back on the platform. That does not mean you want harm to come to them. But. God, I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire?. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. was an attention getter. We saw the Dallas Morning News drop TVC story like it had Ebola germs on it despite knowing that parents were not being warned of a pedophile in their midst. This one was different. Well, we can handle the truth. Certainly, Fulgencio Batista (dictator of Cuba at the time of the communist takeover) was a very corrupt man, whose government did terrible things, as with Trujillo in the Dominican Republic, Papa Doc Duvalier in Haiti, and many others. "We all have desires that are warped as a result of our fallen nature: pride, selfishness, greed, anger, bitterness, unforgiveness, lust, envy, covetousness, chemical addiction," Lindell said. I would argue the reverse. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. James River Church Online - Christian Church - Springfield, MO I followed up on the link and have been sharing this song with families and friends! actually, i still think mark has a phenomena called mixture of spirits that derek prince wrote about. How do you see this as someone looking in? I noted in my comments on the petition that Driscoll still hasnt repented before all and specifically to the people whose lives he damaged, such as former Mars Hill elder/attorney Paul Petry, a godly, decent man. (?) And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. Just show-biz. Rumors that circulated after the trial of Paul Petry. Most of all we want people to know that God loves and cares for them, the church said. I do feel bad for the guy in many ways. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. I find it hard to believe he truly didnt know anything before last weekend! One of six. He spends the remainder of the sermon talking about Saul who became Paul and forgiveness. Or there are people who were sexually abused by Uncle so and so who have forgiven him, and perhaps the man has done his time, but their forgiveness does not mean that they would ever allow their children in the same room with him. Che is somewhat of a romantic figure for a lot of people which is why bringing him up can be uncomfortable. He can be reached at 836-1253, spokin@gannett.com, on Twitter @stevepokinNL or by mail at 651 N. Boonville, Springfield, MO 65806. Im all for forgiveness but this complete whitewash of history when someone offers up an opportunistic Im sorry is not something I see in day to day life. people have said to stay involved in churches to keep them encouraged to follow the Lord and speak up if they are going away towards money and corruption, that is no longer even possible, you can get shunned slandered and prob threats to your life for speaking up anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/, http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts, http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising, http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308, http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21, http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/, http://www.smh.com.au/national/hillsong-conference-shows-interview-with-controversial-us-pastor-mark-driscoll-20150630-gi1y6d.html, http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . Or alcoholics working in a bar. So, where are the reasonable people? 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. See here: As you all know, my family and I have been facing difficult trials and persecution. Its really big in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles I think mainly because they are more predisposed to bad behavior (think TBN and Daystar whackos). When and where did this start? there is a minor child involved that both of them love deeply. AFter the persecution and time in Antioch, Barnabus seems to make a decision on his own to go to Tarsus to find Paul. @ Gus: The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by. Van, I agree with Deb. He had simply accepted the rumors. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. it is so sad it breaks my heart. i have been ousted from 6 churches already and at first i took it as me being in error and not able to understand the bible or what the Lord had called me to be like but now i am able to see that i can trust the still small voice inside and the Holy Spirit to give me understanding of the scriptures without having to run it by a pastor somewhere. How about the demon trials? Popularity and attention of the masses is not the right motive for serving the Lord. Actually are pews still in general use? where is God in all this? Seems like the truth being covered, twisted, remade, ignored is what keeps these people in power and LTs post brings the truth as it actually is back to the forefront. Pastors that dont understand the devestation they cause by playing God in peoples lives, especially women and childrens lives, have no business calling themselves christians and certainly shouldnt be in positions where people might think they are speaking for God Himself when they tell them how to live. GW has a lot of bad stuff they are covering up. since we are all clergy??? My guess is that their Calvinism isnt the root problem here. They were perceived as mediators between the person and Christ. Hadnt considered that a pastor would brainwash to that length. mode. It was because of a backfire in strategy by then executive pastors Jamie Munson and Scott Thomas, who handled my discipline case. They did not want us to leave. Join us LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm and 7pm! pic.twitter.com/Wt6wZOdE9J. Actually, I think the timing was just for that reason. Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community It's because Caleb was allegedly involved in multiple sexual relationships while on staff at daddy's church and he was, The Gospel Coalition now says not everyone can be a missionary. these were murders not trials. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? Hospitable, Self-controlled, Holy, Disciplined, above reproach, Not quarrelsome, not violent but gentle. Week of Power with Bill Johnson & Randy Clark Sunday, March 12 - Thursday March 16. Do your part with the people in your life, give to your church, beyond that have a global heart for widows, orphans, the poor and those in need, I am going to ask you to support some widows and orphans in Africa, We have an orphanage, we have a villagemembers of Mars Hill have actually moved there to take care of widows and orphans.. There is great comfort to be found in that. We know that Driscoll should never have been a pastor: lack of formal qualifications, lack of maturity in the faith (too young, and never been a member of a church before he started his own), lack of maturity in general; Whats worse, total lack of good character. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation) they are plugged in several days a week, basically dropping out of their non-church activities. . http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html. Because he simply cannot be trusted not to repeat himslefthus destroying more lives. The bible sayz dat soon the darkness is coming when no one will be listening. There is no painting a happy face on Driscoll. As the one did previously now the other is going thru the hoops of treatment and being checked on by outside agencies because being around the child is worth it. Matthew 27:33-34 that young man is in jail, he didnt receive a huge sentence and is receiving a great outpouring of care and compassion from the community. Houston was saying in his statement he was only just now finding out about some of Mark Driscolls more controversial statements, and that is due to the media. He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. So, that is why I think it would have been wise for Driscoll to remove himself from the limelight and assume a servant posture. @ sam: But I did find this on the IRS website: A tax-exempt organization "may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.". So as long as Driscoll can provide entertainment and ratings, Pentecostals will continue to book him. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? rather than come in glory he came in humility. In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. Their statements to Karen Hinkley and everyone else may be complete cynical BS to pull the wool over everyones eyes, or at least those of their pewsitters. Saul did get out of Dodge for some years. Like I said, I dont want to get into an argument here. He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they havent asked for forgiveness? How can they do that? I recently darkened the doors of a very small church in another city. They stay in and around the very thing that ruined them in the first place. Kids will experience life-giving messages and TONS of fun as they watch content created just for them. Actually, they have as much as said that there is a good root (their doctrines/practices that accidentally produced some bad fruit. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? I study a lot of the giant DFW megas but most of my data is still filtered through the Gateway lens. He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. And of course, the author of Acts is writing more of a historical narrative so we dont get a lot of details. Your comment about magic words reminded me of Simon the Magician in Acts who was so popular and had all kinds of attention because of his magic performances. Working at James River Church: 40 Reviews - Indeed I called Stephens and informed him Lindell had mentioned him in a sermon. But the Pipers, Mohlers, Akins and others saw him as someone really catching the attention of the young guystheir followers. 13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog. I know the utter devastation that these cults can wreak on their members. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. They are not good for him, and he not good for the people he leads. They stirred up the people now the mob is forming. I know people are tired of hearing these messages and having to be acting upon them, but the virus does not care that we are tired. Are you not voting? With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. He saw it as bad government.". notable pastors have been pouring into his life. So many damaged lives. It takes at least 6 months before you start seeing things clearly. FTR Hillsong is also Assemblies of God. And of course JLindell can know that MD has NOT repented and sought reconciliation with those he threatened with breaking their nose, and then expelled and shunned. The word "love" appears, Lindell said, because it would be unloving not to tell someone that when salvation is at stake. It was never presented to me as something evil just something totally unnecessary and potentially dangerous. He is young and using Jesus is all he knows. But maybe power is just something that is too tempting for him to handle and in order for him to live out his life following Christ, it may be something he must never let pass his lipsmuch like alcoholics cannot drink again. Plus Driscoll has to be way cheaper than Judah Smith or Carl Lentz, the current kings of radical chic. But you need to make sure you hear the second truth. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) I prefer dealing with an honest atheist (and I know a lot of those) to dealing some self-professing christians.